How to rappel with atc reddit. 8mm rope before you need to do it in the alpine.
How to rappel with atc reddit. May 15, 2016 · You can can rig an ATC guide as you're imagining for use as an ascender, and quite effectively, but trying to rappel in that configuration is going to be very frustrating, if not downright dangerous. . I dont find myself wanting to shorten the personal anchor length past that. 7mm, I use the ATC-Alpine Guide, and a hollowblock to backup my rappels. Both are valid. In which case you ought to use any one of the modern ATC equivalents. I use the Grigri for belaying and the ATC for rappelling. I have been climbing for about 2 years, but only bouldering and top roping indoors, and I have only ever used a typical ATC belay device, which I am very comfortable with. Use it in the HFM when you want more holding power as when using small diameter ropes, rappelling a single line and while belaying a climber working a route. (Common ones include the ATC and Figure 8) Locking, climbing-rated carabiners (at least 3: one for belay device, one for personal anchor system, one for prussik) Personal Anchor System (often called PAS: for connecting yourself to the anchors while rigging the rappel) Either a dynamic climbing rope or Know how to rappel on that 7. For about five years or so I've been using ATCs or ATC Guides for rappelling, but recently bought the Smart Alpine because I heard it was better at feeding ropes in guide mode. Do you prefer to rappel from a double strand, eg a rope run through a ring at the halfway point with two strands going through an ATC guide? Or do you prefer to Figure-8-on-a-bight + Carabiner at the halfway point so it can't pass through the ring, rappel down a single strand using a GriGri/Fig8/ATC and pull the knotted side when you reach the ground? My local climbing course taught the first remove my ATC, set up a rap point (sacrificial beaner or quicklink - must be metal and not cordelette/webbing since the rope will rub through it unlike normal rappels) as close to the prussik on the rope as possible set my rap setup single strand on the break side of the rope, as close to the rap point as possible, backup hitch mandatory Hi all, So I have read through a bunch of other threads on here about choosing a belay device, but I haven't found one that answers all of my questions yet. I don’t believe those are rated for atc = normal tube device atc-xp = normal tube device with a high friction side atc-xp guide = atc-xp with an auto-block feature for bringing up seconds figure 8 is a rappel device that you can also belay with but I wouldn't advise it. A six-carabiner rappel essentially uses carabiners to create a makeshift version of a standard ATC. They sit in a gear Hollywood and combat rappels, that use super 8, air traffic controller, super belay gadget, muntar hitch, and aussie. 1. Second unties the knot and raps both strands on the other device, with partner giving fireman belay. So yes, 4 biners is for redundancy and additional strength. You could lose the atc and use a munter if you are really trying to cut ounces. Its worth noting that a single rope rappels are more complicated and have more accidents than double rope rappels. That’s cool. My 2-3 person glacier rope is a 37m 7. 3M subscribers in the climbing community. I will climb with a grigri for lead belaying and an ATC guide or gigi/ovo plate for belaying the follower. How do you rappel with a gri-gri? I have always used just a normal ATC but got a gri-gri 2 as a gift and I am just wondering if i can rappel after… I girth a double length sling or two to my harness and tie an overhang 1/3 of the way up, then I can navigate rappels super safely and dont have to bring any extra gear. However, with the prussik above, if you extend the knot/backup system too far above the ATC you won't be able to reach the knot to slide it down the rope or it could get caught on a lip. Rappel: consider girth hitching your extension (the double runner) to your hard points rather than using two locking carabiners, it's cleaner and saves hardware and there's no way to mistake which carabiner is used for which purpose. It's easy to do a single rope rappel and get your rope down without any added slings or fuss. An ATC or figure 8 with quality ‘biners and a friction hitch backup is cheaper and smoother. 8mm rope before you need to do it in the alpine. I got it to have an assistant braking device for outdoor lead climbing. All that said, yeah, you should probably just learn how to rappel on a munter hitch instead. From what I understand, the only method to do this is the sketchy leg-wrap-around. I haven't handled the Reverso 3 myself, but the design is seemingly identical to the Guide, so when I say Guide you can easily substitute a Reverso. Skip to main content Open menuOpen navigationGo to Reddit Home r/atc2 A chipA close button Get appGet the Reddit appLog InLog in to Reddit Expand user menuOpen settings menu Log In / Sign Up Advertise on Reddit I would prefer to rap a double rope with a ATC, but I'm not sure how this can be done since there are no lower rap stations. Sep 7, 2014 · Learn how to tie one (plenty of good youtube videos) with the device you plan to use (most commonly taught with an ATC, but works about the same with others) and you'll have a quick, secure way to block off a rappel and go hands free. Photo: Andrew Burr Since 1951, Accidents in North American Mountaineering has chronicled hundreds of rappelling accidents and fatalities in the United States and Canada. Apr 23, 2022 · ATC guide is pretty much the gold standard belay device for mountaineering. Tie the rope using a figure eight on a bend (maybe a better knot The ATC and 8 are both great for rappelling, but they were not designed specifically for canyoneering. It looks to me like you are asking about using this setup as a rappel backup - having your prussik attached to the hole in the ATC rather than clipped directly to your harness. Learn how to tie one (plenty of good youtube videos) with the device you plan to use (most commonly taught with an ATC, but works about the same with others) and you'll have a quick, secure way to block off a rappel and go hands free. The main issue in my opinion is that when the knot is loaded with your body weight, the force will be transferred through the wire loop of the ATC that is clipped to your harness. You can either downclimb or use a rap station to go straight back down to the upper saddle. This method uses three groups of two ‘biners, arranged in an opposite and opposing manner, to create friction in the system. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. I am going to go for my lead rope certification within the next month hopefully and I was wondering about everyone's opinions on using an ATC or Question on double strand rappelling. So here’s my question: what if I tie off an overhand on a bite below my ATC, and then clip myself into that via an extra QuickDraw or something? Then I could go hands free. However, I tried using it on 3 rappels coming down from a route in Eldo and it was such a pain in the ass to rappel with. Also, just guessing, I imagine the first biner from the belay loop is to prevent the chance of the rope running directly over the fabric as you rappel, which could cause it to cut through and fail. You can can rig an ATC guide as you're imagining for use as an ascender, and quite effectively, but trying to rappel in that configuration is going to be very frustrating, if not downright dangerous. Back-up systems include extra rope to use as safety back-up known as prusik and personal anchor tether (also known as personal anchor system). For rappels fix the rope in the middle, first person rappels with Grigri on single strand. For gym lead climbing I typically go with the Smart. Some of the devices we tested began with an automatic advantage in this category — the ability to rappel two strands. Jul 18, 2023 · The Young and the Rackless, Boulder Canyon Are you a beginner outdoor lead climber interested in learning how to safely clean and rappel from a bolted anchor sport route? In this 4-minute read, I Sep 12, 2023 · Devices BD ATC Alpine Guide This is a great starting point for most people with most ropes. There are lots of little reasons why I recommend a canyon specific device like the SQWUREL, Critr2, ATS over just any old For rappelling a climbing route you can use something as simple as a tube device like an ATC or even a grigri (although its trickier to set up correctly) but this give you an idea of belay devices. One sling is tied to my belay loop while the other is tied just where my figure 8 would be. That noted, as a double rope rappel with the Beal Backup line, the Aug 18, 2019 · From what I understand, the only method to do this is the sketchy leg-wrap-around. All this setup nonsense seems to over complicate the system. While the ATC easily accommodates two rope strands for belays, the GriGri requires a bit more finesse to handle such an environment. 5mm, so 6mm ropes fall outside the recommended range. its nice to be able to clearly weight your atc and observe your personal anchor being slack An ATC is lighter, able to handle two ropes, and doesn't require a skill refresh for rappel etc. However, I am looking to get The argument from their side is that if the backup is below the rappel device, it can get caught up in the ATC (in this case) and not catch you at all. 4, so pretty much a technical hike with alot of exposure. Beginners are often taught to rappel with a tube style device and then go on believing that that is the only way to rappel. All biners involved are having weight and force applied at angles and locations that they were never intended to face, nor were certified for. Pure rappelling devices are often more extravagant due to their use in free hanging rappels or for commercial rappeling like window washing. I’ve was wondering about those. Aug 18, 2019 · From what I understand, the only method to do this is the sketchy leg-wrap-around. What’s the best way to rappel on a rad line? I know petzl says you can use a Reverso with 2 carabiners, or some people say using an atc alpine or microjul works, and some people even recommend a canyoneering plate like a Grivel scream, but none of these are assisted and you’d still need a backup/3rd hand, and it sounds like prusiks aren’t recommended (but some people use them anyway Dynamic rope, harness, atc with slots for two ropes, couple 8ft long pieces of half inch webbing, couple rappel rings, locking carabineer, carabineer, auto block of your choice, probably a helmet, and the skills to use them. Benefit of the ATC is it doubles as a rappel device and it’s much easier to use. Aug 6, 2021 · Not sure which belay device to get? We tested the Petzl GriGri 2 and Black Diamond ATC side-by-side to help you know which is right for you. To me, it looked like a better built Pilot at $15 cheaper, so I gave it a shot. Then I use an overhand or figure 8 on a bite for the atc. 9-8. well you still do kinda have to disengage your rappel in order to flip your atc around. For sport or single pitch, I find it useful if I am belaying someone on something with a particularly hard start. However the one thing that does concern me is the way down. Always keep an eye on gear in canyons it wears much quicker than you would expect. New Edelrid belay device, the Giga Jul, easily switches between Mega Jul style device and ATC tube style device Aug 18, 2019 · From what I understand, the only method to do this is the sketchy leg-wrap-around. That being said, if ATCs are phased out over the next twenty years by assisted braking devices, I wouldn't be surprised or mad. Ask yourself what you’d do if you dropped your only stick without a rappel rope handy? Rappelling involves cleaning the anchor then using a personal belay device (commonly an ATC, grigri or other) to rappel/abseil back down to the base of the climb. This well-rounded belay device doubles as a rappel device, and its capacity makes it our best bet for multi-pitch climbing. Fig8 twists the rope badly both on rappel, and on belay, unless you use it like an ATC. Releasing an ATC in guide mode gives you very little incremental friction control; it tends to be all or nothing, unlike the gradual release of friction Agreed. Using it feels natural and it works well for As I top out a climb, I will usually rappel back down avoiding the FF2 fall onto the anchors. Jun 8, 2016 · This originally appeared in the December 2015 issue of our print edition. Just use a prussik backup when you rappel. Timed and tested rappel seat with inspection (I wigged out and tied a granny. 8 doing a two strand rappel a two lash prussik holds well enough below the ATC but doesn't severely bind. Last thing I want to do when I have to rappel 10 pitches at the end of the day is burn more energy. You use two of the carabiners to attach to your harness belay loop, two Well yeah. The ATC-XP is the next evolution of Black Diamond’s ‘Air Traffic Controller’, tubular belay device. I'd get the Pilot or an ATC Guide or even the ATC Sport, but the XP is a stupid in-between solution. I always use two 30 cm slings to connect myself with the ATC for redudancy. We only have one ATC to do a rappel and two gri-gri's. It abrades down and is nearing replacement but it seems to work fine if you keep an eye on it. minor minus). The number of loops you'll need will depend on if you're doing a single strand vs 2 strand rappel, condition of the rope sheath, diameter of the rope etc etc so always give it a quick tug to make sure it catches, and adjust it with extra loop if it doesn't (and take out loops when there's way too much friction!). About prusik/autoblock : below ATC, above ATC, ATC attached to a sling to your belaying loop Hi! I was curious to know how redditor are doing your rappel : I've learned to have a prusik knot above my ATC as this image but I've seen others technique to do it. Remember the belay plate is the primary source of friction, and your back up knot is just that, a secondary. Timed and tested RMPI (rappel master personal inspection, very difficult to identify pebbles in pockets, minor minus). What would be the best way to lower off the route? I was thinking of doing it like this: After getting to the top, pass the rope through the anchor and make sure the middle of the rope is at the anchor. May 5, 2025 · That's where lowering and rappelling come in. Hey everyone, I've been climbing for about 7 months, so if I don't say something correctly I'm sorry! Recently within the past two months I have gotten into top rope climbing and I can confidently climbing 5. I use an atc for canyoneering. Now, you can also use this device to rappel without a prusik. The ATC-Guide offers smooth handling while you climb with its lightweight and easy-to-use construction. If I extend my ATC so that I can attach my prusik to my belay loop and tie the knot below my ATC, how far does it need to be extended? Can I just use a sling girth hitched around my belay loop for this? Climbing Harness Rappel/Belay device. Also, it introduces slightly more friction to the set up. 447 votes, 97 comments. I extend my atc by girth hitching a double length nylon sling and using a locker to attach it back to the belay loop. I'm going to go climb a multipitch route tomorrow together with a friend. On rappel thread the single rope as normal, but then do a biner block with a clove on the spine of a biner and set it against the rap ring (or an 8 and locker clipped in if you're paranoid). I recently started using a Mammut Smart 2. If I am out with an atc I use the usual method. Anyone who needs the peace of mind provided by assisted braking should probably not be belaying on a multi pitch. If I don't break down the system and intend to do another lap, is it feasible to rappel on a single strand with an ATC (for all the information I've been able to dig up online, this has surprisingly been hard to find) using the knot-free strand. Pass your rope through like you normally would, with both strands going to the ground. It’s been great. Apr 24, 2017 · I will climb with a grigri for lead belaying and an ATC guide or gigi/ovo plate for belaying the follower. With a 30 cm lenght between me and my device I can tie my autoblock (usually a Prusik) on my belay loop instead of my leg loop. I read a lot about people wondering how they'd get their rappel anchors down after rappelling, or in general rappelling without leaving gear. With great holding and stopping power and a versatile design that accepts a wide range of ropes, this classic belay device is ready for a variety of missions. Self rescue: consider using a proper cord rather than a dyneema runner for the foot prussik. I prefer the atc myself. Now I get that if you fix the rope up top to single rope rappel with a GriGri, but why not just use an eight at a fixed bolt? Obviously not for trad climbing, but if there are bolts, I don't see a problem. What on earth happened to the days you taught someone how to rappel and off they went? My first rappel I was hucked off the top of a hundred foot cliff and told not to let go with my brake hand. Do you think it would be safe to hang handfree from this setup or there would be some more adequate Feb 12, 2024 · The Black Diamond ATC-Guide is a device we commend for being able to do it all. I'd really appreciate any recommendations on how to go about this rappel, because I'd prefer not to downclimb Dec 13, 2023 · The Best Device for Rappelling The GriGris biggest hangup for Axel Kochendörfer, a Germany-based mountain rescuer, is its inability to offer a two-strand rappel. When using a double strand what's the proper way to set up a prussik backup for fall arrest? Is it acceptable to grab both lines with a triple wrap prussik? He's using a guide ATC in guide mode on simul rappel. I personally own both. And yes we are scared of falling. I like it because I can undo the carabiner and lock into another anchor easily while still staying on rappel. (Correction, as another user pointed out it's not setup like guide mode like you would use in top belay, but it's still not the recommended way to use the device to rappel. I've found on a fuzzy 9. May 22, 2012 · It's easy to do a single rope rappel and get your rope down without any added slings or fuss. As for ropes there are several different techniques to setting up canyon rappels. The safest way to rappel with a carabiner is to perform what is known as a six-carabiner rappel. The home of Climbing on reddit. Your question about removing it entirely seem like it might be situational. 249K subscribers in the tacticalgear community. The recommended range is 6. Also it greatly increases your chances of a stuck rope. 11+ confidently in a gym setting. I haven't heard of any official term for it other than as the "Russian Method" but using a bowline to tie in the first person down and using a grigri (or atc with backup) on the rappel strand seems to me to be a really safe and fast way to desend with little chance of forgetting to untie stopper knots before pulling ropes, and doesn't twist the The ATC doesn’t have this. Others have their preferences for similar designs from other brands, but I am pretty confident more mountains have been climbed with the ATC guide than any other. It takes less energy to just wrap an autoblock around the rope to back up rappels. Quick tip, always test the prussik when you setup your rappel. How long has your BF been climbing? If he is newer and only top roping, I would lean towards getting him the ATC. 11-5. 0, with the idea that it’s cheaper than a GRIGRI and “safer” than a normal ATC XP. If you have the rope for a long rappel then a double stranded is preferable, however a properly set up I tried this method, still herky jerky on rappel and wasted energy. All in all wouldn't recommend it for a beginner, especially when you can get a basic ATC for $20 (even if you still use the pilot for belaying). This being said, I used a mega jul for ~300 pitches over the course of a summer and a jul2 for quit a bit of sport cragging. That gets repeated online and voila you get "You can't rappel on a grigri!" Use whatever method you prefer but know that other methods exist. Jun 3, 2022 · Learn this reliable system, which includes a backup and basic rope-ascent skills, to make your rappelling safer. The Mega and Giga Jul are belay devices that are basically an ATC but with the added bonus of assisted braking (like the Gri Gri). While the risks associated with rappelling—and climbing for that matter—can never be totally eliminated, there are steps we can take to boost Both are available just about anywhere that sells climbing gear, online or in stores, the standard ATC is usually around $15, the XP around $20 the only difference is that the XP has a grooved channel that gives a bit more friction/stopping power- useful for belaying someone heavier then you or long rappels. ATC guide is pretty much the gold standard belay device for mountaineering. The Reverso 3 and the ATC Guide are pretty much interchangeable in my mind. For multi-pitch, I would typically use the ATC for rappel. I own a GriGri, Guide, and the Alpine Smart. ) Guide mode is for top belaying, not for rappelling. I hope this post isn't too redundant. A climbing helmet, hiking shoes, gloves, and of course, comfortable clothes are a must if you are going rappelling. The force is all on you and your belay device and the anchors don’t get worn out as much when compared to lowering. If you want to rap off a single strand you can perform a reepschnur rappel. Delap often uses the GriGri in a rappelling environment, but he notes that doing so wears your ropes The basic rappelling equipment consists of ropes, anchors, rappel devices, a locking carabiner, and a harness. Those models are the ATC XP, ATC Guide, Verso, Reverso, DMM Pivot, and Edelrid Giga and Mega Juls. It's easier than the GriGri to feed rope through and allows some assisted Proper Rappel Techniques I'm planning on climbing Grand Teton in August, I'm taking the owen spalding route which is a 5. It is just a little easier to take and give Slack in those moments where you are just above the deck and every inch of rope and moment of attentiveness really matter. For example, you can use a rock to pound a nail into a board, but you will have better results using a tool designed for it - hammer, mallet, Chuck Norris's fists, etc. The ATC Alpine works like a standard ATC style device, so it requires minimal adjustment from a full-size device to work pretty well with skinny ropes. Apr 24, 2017 · All biners involved are having weight and force applied at angles and locations that they were never intended to face, nor were certified for. Subreddit for both professional and civilian tactical gear. I was curious if there was a "perfect" way to do it or if it was to the climber Also, it introduces slightly more friction to the set up. Now he and his partner may not die or be severely injured from that as it does seem to apply enough friction such The ATC-XP is a variable friction device, meaning that it has a high friction mode (HFM) and a regular friction mode (RFM). qqrpsnjzoekiyjwevobqryjncnhokidudtxlcetptajwqxszwwarspy